It’s a simple question, don’t use your competitors’ products if you can.
Aisin Seiki’s largest shareholder is Toyota Motor. Toyota holds 22.2% of Aisin Seiki's shares, and Aisin's second largest shareholder is Toyota Industries, which holds 7.68% of the shares. It can be seen that Toyota and Aisin are like a family behind closed doors. Although Honda, Nissan and others are also Japanese cars, they are also their biggest competitors. Even if Aisin sells gearboxes to them, they dare not use them on a large scale.
Volkswagen is a warning to others.
A certain model turned red and purple after being launched, which seriously affected the sales of Camry. Easy to handle, stop supply! Just say that the production capacity is insufficient, and we are working hard to make overtime. Volkswagen concentrated on developing dual-clutch gearboxes after suffering a dull loss. However, Volkswagen's low-end models still purchase Aisin's cheapest low-torque 6AT gearbox. This cheap gearbox is open to the public and can be purchased by any car company. Therefore, many domestic cars also use Aisin 6AT.
In addition to Volkswagen, GAC has also suffered from insufficient supply of Aisin gearboxes.
The sales of GS8 have been rising steadily since its launch, looming as a threat to Highlander. So when GS8 was at its peak, Aisin pulled a trick and stopped supply due to insufficient production capacity. GS8 was suddenly choked, its rhythm was disrupted, and its sales were instantly suppressed. Partners have to stab each other, not to mention rivals such as Honda and Nissan.
Honda will not purchase Aisin gearboxes at all costs, and would rather purchase the controversial ZF 9AT gearbox.
This nine-speed gearbox had a bad reputation before. Its quality problems were exposed at the CCTV 315 Gala. The transmission failures of Land Rover and Jeep were all caused by the 9AT. However, except for a few oil leakage failures when used on the crown road, other failures such as sudden loss of power have never occurred. This shows Honda’s tuning skills. Not only does Honda have a good engine, but the gearbox is not bad either. The Honda parallel shaft transmission is an example. In addition to the self-developed CVT gearbox, except for high-torque high-end gearboxes that need to be purchased, almost all other models can be handled with CVT gearboxes. Low cost, high transmission efficiency and smoothness.
The same goes for Nissan.
As early as 1970, Nissan, Ford, and Mazda jointly established an automatic transmission company, which is now one of the three major transmission suppliers: JATCO Transmission (JATCO). Therefore, all Nissans use CVT transmissions, and all large and small continuously variable transmissions are JATCO transmissions. Use your own products and feel at ease.
When seeing this problem, many people’s first reaction is that Toyota is the major shareholder of Aisin Seiki, accounting for 22.2% of the shares, and Toyota is a competitor of Honda and Nissan, so Honda and Nissan do not need to Aisin gearbox. This is indeed a reason, and it is a relatively important reason, but it is not the core reason.
Why is it not the core reason? The reason is very simple, I have it myself, why should I use someone else’s?
Whenever Honda and Nissan lag behind in gearboxes, they will more or less purchase some Aisin gearboxes, but this is not the case. Taking the public as an example, what they are best at is DSG, and it is not particularly powerful, so they use Aisin 6AT/8AT from time to time. Why? I know how to do it myself, but I’m not very good at it, and I don’t want to be controlled by others, so I bite the bullet and try to use my own DSG. The cost can be reduced a lot. If it doesn’t work, I can only use Aisin AT. The public is sometimes helpless.
Honda and Nissan are different. They are much better at gearboxes than Volkswagen, and can even compete with Aisin.
The three largest automatic transmission companies in the world are Germany's ZF, Japan's Aisin, and Japan's JATCO. ZF's most famous one is the ZF8AT, which is used by BMW, Land Rover, and many luxury cars. . Aisin's most popular product is 6AT, and now it is strongly promoting 8AT. This product is protected by a patent period and has high profits. In fact, it is not much better than 6AT.
Jetco specializes in CVT, and it also has some expertise in AT. The Nissan Tuda is matched with its 7AT, which has good shifting logic, stability, durability, and economy.
Nissan is the majority shareholder of Jetco, and some people know this very well. In this case, is it still necessary for Nissan to use Aisin gearboxes?
Both Toyota and Nissan have a strong sense of businessmanship. The better their technology is, the better their business will be. When it comes to doing business, Honda is far behind them. To put it bluntly, Honda is obsessed with technology. Not only is the engine good, but the gearbox is also very powerful. However, most people don’t understand Honda’s routines, and they never play by the rules. Aisin uses a planetary gear AT, while Honda uses a parallel-axis AT. I have a 2013 CRV, which is matched with a 5-parallel-axis AT. Except for a slight setback when upgrading from second gear to third gear, there are no other problems. , also very easy to use.
Let’s talk about Honda’s CVT. Other people’s CVT steel belts are basically provided by Boshi and Schaeffler, but it has tinkered with it itself and is very durable. Who has ever heard that Honda’s CVT can easily have problems? ? Or maybe Honda is paranoid. It can always do things that others don't expect, and it does it in a decent way.
Not only that, Honda has also developed the world's first transverse front-wheel drive 10AT, which is also the world's mass-produced transmission with the widest gear ratio range. It is small in size, light in weight, and can withstand large torque. The disadvantage of the parallel axis is that it is large and has too many gears, so this structure cannot be used. As for how the Honda 10AT came about, I’ll talk about it in detail another day, but it’s pretty funny anyway.
Honda is paranoid and loves to engage in technology, and often comes up with technologies that may seem non-mainstream but can overwhelm mainstream technologies. Therefore, Honda will not use Aisin, whether it is based on Honda's character traits or its technical strength. Of course, Honda also has its share of embarrassments. For example, the ZF9AT purchased from ZF was a bit of a miss. I guess I will be more cautious in the future and do whatever I like.
There is another reason
Honda and Nissan mainly use CVT, which is low-cost, fuel-efficient and smooth. Although it cannot compare with the output texture of AT, the silkier output is also more pleasing to the eye. People like it, especially in ordinary family cars, it is worry-free and smooth, and the current CVT is also quite stable. Aisin's advantage is actually AT, and its achievements in CVT are not outstanding. Compared with Honda CVT and Jetco, it has no advantage. Therefore, from this perspective, Nissan and Honda do not have the possibility of purchasing Aisin transmissions.
Summary:
The first reason: Honda does not use Aisin gearboxes because it has mature, reliable, and advanced gearboxes, whether it is CVT or AT. Have its own unique advantages. Nissan does not use Aisin gearboxes because Jetco can provide excellent CVT gearboxes.
The second reason: There is a competitive relationship between them. Honda and Nissan are definitely not willing to be controlled by others, nor are they willing to increase additional costs. And deep down, Toyota is not willing to provide, especially the transmission with relatively advanced technology. On the one hand, it involves the issue of technical leaks. On the other hand, there is a problem of matching and adjustment with the engine. It also involves technical indicators. In fact, there is no particularly in-depth communication and cooperation between them. Mainly opposition.
The third reason: Aisin’s advantage is AT, while Honda and Nissan mainly match CVT. From this perspective, there is no possibility of using it at all.
Aisin Seiki’s largest shareholder is Toyota Motor. Toyota holds 22.2% of Aisin Seiki's shares, and Aisin's second largest shareholder is Toyota Industries, which holds 7.68% of the shares. It can be seen that Toyota and Aisin are like a family behind closed doors. Although Honda, Nissan and others are also Japanese cars, they are also their biggest competitors. Even if Aisin sells gearboxes to them, they dare not use them on a large scale.
Volkswagen is a warning to others.
A certain model turned red and purple after being launched, which seriously affected the sales of Camry. Easy to handle, stop supply! Just say that the production capacity is insufficient, and we are working hard to make overtime.
Volkswagen concentrated on developing dual-clutch gearboxes after suffering a dull loss. However, Volkswagen's low-end models still purchase Aisin's cheapest low-torque 6AT gearbox. This cheap gearbox is open to the public and can be purchased by any car company. Therefore, many domestic cars also use Aisin 6AT.
In addition to Volkswagen, GAC has also suffered from insufficient supply of Aisin gearboxes.
The sales of GS8 have been rising steadily since its launch, looming as a threat to Highlander. So when GS8 was at its peak, Aisin pulled a trick and stopped supply due to insufficient production capacity. GS8 was suddenly choked, its rhythm was disrupted, and its sales were instantly suppressed. Partners have to stab each other, not to mention rivals such as Honda and Nissan.
Honda will not purchase Aisin gearboxes at all costs, and would rather purchase the controversial ZF 9AT gearbox.
This nine-speed gearbox had a bad reputation before. Its quality problems were exposed at the CCTV 315 Gala. The transmission failures of Land Rover and Jeep were all caused by the 9AT. However, except for a few oil leakage failures when used on the crown road, other failures such as sudden loss of power have never occurred. This shows Honda’s tuning skills. Not only does Honda have a good engine, but the gearbox is not bad either. The Honda parallel shaft transmission is an example. In addition to the self-developed CVT gearbox, except for high-torque high-end gearboxes that need to be purchased, almost all other models can be handled with CVT gearboxes. Low cost, high transmission efficiency and smoothness.
The same goes for Nissan. As early as 1970, Nissan, Ford, and Mazda jointly established an automatic transmission company, which is now one of the three major transmission suppliers: JATCO Transmission (JATCO). Therefore, all Nissans use CVT transmissions, and all large and small continuously variable transmissions are JATCO transmissions. Use your own products and feel at ease.
It is said that Aisin is the "gearbox king", why don't Honda and Nissan use it? The reason is very simple. If you have a gearbox at home, why should you rush to give money to your competitors? Unless the top executives of Honda and Nissan are kicked in the head by a donkey, they will not purchase Aisin gearboxes on a large scale.
The relationship between Aisin and Toyota
Aisin has very strong technical strength in the field of gearboxes, but Aisin and Toyota are actually a family. Japan's Aisin was founded in 1969 by Aisin. Aisin Seiki is a joint venture established by Aisin and BorgWarner. Among them, Toyota Group owns 22.2% of Aisin Seiki. Because of this, almost all Toyota models use Aisin’s transmissions. Under such circumstances, if Honda and Nissan use Aisin transmissions, they are basically giving money to their competitor Toyota.
Aisin’s “neck-stuck” tactics
Because of the relationship between Toyota and Aisin, Aisin often makes bad moves when supplying gearboxes to Toyota’s competitors. Chinese people are more familiar with GAC Trumpchi’s GS8. In 2017, the GS8 finally topped the 7-seat SUV sales rankings. However, because it threatened Highlander’s status, it was choked by Aisin and reduced gearbox supply. It had no choice but to The production of Trumpchi GS8 has been reduced to 7,000 units per month. This situation has also happened to Volkswagen, which is also an important reason for Volkswagen to develop DSG gearbox.
Honda and Nissan’s gearboxes
If you don’t have the ability to develop and produce gearboxes like GAC Trumpchi, forget it. If you can produce gearboxes yourself, why should you do it for your competitors? Increase profits?
Although the research and development of gearboxes is difficult, it is not a problem for Honda, a "technical control" who loves to study, seek innovation, and pursue dreams persistently. Honda initially used Jetco's CVT gearbox, but after discovering that Jetco's gearbox could not meet the failure rate and speed-increasing requirements of its own models, Honda began to develop its own gearbox. Honda has independently developed 6AT, 8DCT with hydraulic torque converter and CVT gearboxes, and Honda has developed the world's first transverse 10AT gearbox. In fact, Honda has very strong research and development capabilities in gearboxes and does not need them at all. Dependence on other suppliers.
Nearly all Nissan's gearboxes come from Jetco, which is also a company controlled by Nissan. Therefore, for Nissan, it can use Aisin's gearbox instead of using its own gearbox. It's just that my brain is twitching. As one of the world's three largest transmission manufacturers, Jetco supplies brands such as Nissan, Mitsubishi Motors, Suzuki, Fuji Heavy Industries, Renault, and Chrysler, with an annual supply of more than 5 million units.
There is no doubt that Aisin is the leader in gearboxes. Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Peugeot, Mazda and some of our own brand cars also use Aisin gearboxes. Aisin is a sub-brand of Toyota, and almost all Toyota and Lexus use Aisin transmissions. Aisin gearbox has very obvious advantages: stable and reliable quality, smart shifting logic, good fuel economy, cheap price, etc. Since Aisin's gearbox is so good, why don't Nissan and Honda, both Japanese cars, use it?
There must be a reason not to use it. The reason is very simple. Nissan and Honda have good enough gearboxes, so why use Toyota's? He might get choked, which would be very embarrassing. Volkswagen has made a fool of itself, and it has taught other car companies a lesson: don’t rely on anyone, and there is no reliable partner.
Among the three largest gearbox manufacturers in the world, in addition to Aisin, there are also ZF and Czechoslovakia. Czech's relationship with Nissan is the same as Aisin's relationship with Toyota. Czechtec is one of the three largest transmission manufacturers in the world, and its strength is undoubted. It is a sub-brand of Nissan. Naturally, Nissan has the priority to use Czechtec gearboxes. This is called "rich water does not flow to outsiders' fields." What's so hard to understand? Czech is very accomplished in the field of CVT gearboxes. Currently, all automatic cars under Nissan are equipped with CVT gearboxes. It has a simple structure, mature technology, smooth power output and very high comfort.
The world's largest transmission manufacturer has nothing to do with Honda. Why doesn't Honda use Aisin transmissions? In fact, Honda not only does not use Aisin gearboxes, nor does it use Czech gearboxes, there is only one 9AT gearbox that uses ZF. Honda is known as a "black technology", a technical nerd, and a master in making gearboxes. In fact, Honda is an all-round car company. Motorcycles, cars, and airplanes have long been commercialized. Honda's parallel-axis gearbox simply bypassed Toyota's AT gearbox patent, just like Honda's hybrid bypassed Toyota's hybrid and achieved the same result. There's nothing Honda can't do, it's just a matter of not thinking about it. In addition to the parallel shaft gearbox, Honda's CVT gearbox is also reliable and durable. Don't think that Honda can't make AT products. There are really few companies that can make the 10AT gearbox equipped in the North American Accord.
In fact, building a car is the same as making money. It is better to have it yourself than anyone else. Why would Nissan and Honda use other people's transmissions when they have excellent enough transmissions? That's all.
Aisin’s gearbox is very good, but the better it is, the less Honda and Nissan want to use it. Why? Because Aisin and Toyota are too close, and Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are each other's biggest competitors.
Let’s take a look at the top three shareholders of Aisin Seiki, which are Toyota Motor, Toyota Industrial and Denso. Needless to say, the first two companies can be seen by looking at their names. The latter company is not called Toyota, but it is also controlled by Toyota, so Aisin is actually a Toyota company.
Although Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are the top three Japanese brands, regardless of the North American market, the Chinese market, or the local market (Japan), in the three largest markets for Japanese car brands, the products of these three companies are Direct competition is more intense than with other manufacturers.
Competition is one aspect. If you can't do it yourself, you have to use your competitors' stuff. Nissan has used Aisin's gearbox, and Honda has also used JATCO's gearbox. If Apple doesn't have 5G chips right now, if Huawei offers it, it will happily accept it. Nowadays, Honda and Nissan have relatively strong transmission technologies, so it is normal for them not to use Aisin's transmissions.
Aisin is a big player in gearboxes, but this has no direct relationship with whether Honda and Nissan use it. There is little cooperation between the three Japanese giants, and they are in a competitive relationship. It is not a very rational choice for competitors to be responsible for the production of such important components; once there is competition in the product, it is easy for the other party to stumble on some core components, such as insufficient supply, etc., and the car is not available. The solution is to temporarily find a replacement transmission, so everyone uses Aisin. Then Aisin controls all car companies!
Therefore, any large car company that has enough financial resources to develop automatic transmissions will find a way to get rid of Aisin! As for those that are small in scale and lack financial resources, they can only purchase from major gearbox suppliers. It is not because they want to do this, but because they have no choice but to make it themselves, so they can only purchase it from outside; so Except for Toyota, which uses Aisin transmissions, all other popular brands and models will develop their own automatic transmissions. For example, Volkswagen used to use Aisin, but now it uses a large number of dual-clutches to gradually replace Aisin's At; because Volkswagen and Toyota is a competitor. If you use Aisin, the cost will always be much higher than that of Toyota, and the car will be less competitive (just saying that selling the same gearbox to the public will definitely be more expensive than selling it to Toyota)!
Nissan and Honda do not need Aisin transmissions
Aisin, Jetco, ZF, Mobis, and Magna (Getrag) are the world’s five largest Transmission suppliers; in addition to these transmission suppliers, the car companies that have the ability to build AT transmissions are Honda and Mercedes-Benz (I can only think of these two at the moment, and my friends who are not qualified will add them); among them, Aisin Seiko is controlled by Toyota, Therefore, it has a close relationship with Toyota. Jetco is controlled by Nissan, so it has a close relationship with Nissan. ZF and BMW are both controlled by the Quandt family, so the two have a close relationship. This is the main pattern of the current transmission system; so Nissan will only use Jetco and will not look far for Aisin; Honda, on the other hand, has the ability to develop gearboxes, so it will not go to Aisin. If it really needs it, it would rather cooperate with ZF than go to Aisin. Will touch Ai Shin!
There is almost no cooperation between the three Japanese giants, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan, which is the reason for competition; Nissan uses Jetco, needless to say; Honda’s transmissions are mostly in-house Research and development, such as CVT, parallel-axis AT, and ten-speed AT. In this regard, Honda is a model of continuous improvement and dares to create. In the past, Honda used a Jetco CVT gearbox, and the cycle was very short. Later, it developed its own CVT. There's no need for it. Why use Aisin's transmission when you can make it yourself? Honda now also uses external transmissions, such as ZF's nine-speed At, but it will definitely not use Aisin's machines, so there may be some face issues here. Although Ryota and Ichisan are all Japanese, they are also enemy!
Aisin Transmission is not a real leader
Aisin’s automatic transmission has a loud name, so many friends think that Aisin’s automatic transmission is the highest level. In fact, Aisin’s machines are better in terms of cost performance. High, large installed capacity, excellent quality, and decent performance (friends who buy a car at this price may not care about performance at all), so Aisin transmission represents the most powerful economical transmission in this field. , it is the most powerful one with large sales volume; when it comes to performance, ZF is the leader! Sometimes, we often like to judge quality and technical aspects based on sales volume. There is a gearbox customization company in the UK called Ricardo. Its scale cannot be compared with Aisin, but its technical strength is enough to provide Bugatti with specialized equipment. Design transmissions, so these are the real big guys, just hermits!
All in all, Nissan and Honda have enough reasons not to use Aisin transmissions. Nissan controls Jetco and has enough CVTs available. Although Jetco has stopped developing AT, Nissan is also betting on CVT. Besides, there were seven-speed ATs in the past that could be used; Honda naturally would not use Aisin. Its own CVT and ten-speed ATs are already very mature, so there is no need to use Aisin. Even if they use imported ones, they will still use ZF; transmissions box is
It is one of the core parts of the car, so large OEMs either independently develop or control gearbox companies. This is how large car companies play. Small-scale car companies can rely on external procurement, but for large car companies, this operation is dangerous. , do you feel uncomfortable if your heart is held in the hands of others?
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Let me talk about the common problems of Aisin 6AT!
The main problem is the valve body. Generally, after driving for about 60,000 to 80,000 kilometers, the valve body will be excessively washed by the transmission oil, which will cause wear and tear, so there will be a sudden downshift, usually fifth gear downshifting to fourth gear. The gear sluggishness is severe, and there will also be gear shifting shock. Especially when shifting from neutral to forward gear, the vehicle will rush forward.
Changing the transmission oil will alleviate it, but it cannot cure it. Cold weather is more serious, and the situation will be better after the car is warmed up.
Of course, it is much better than Ford GM’s 6AT.
In addition, Aisin’s 8AT is not necessarily that good, otherwise it would not be taken away by ZF’s 8AT. Aisin’s 8AT came out earlier than ZF’s.
The three major gearbox brands currently recognized in the world are: Germany's ZF, Japan's Aisin and Japan's Jetco. Also famous are Mobis, Allison, BorgWarner, Getrag, etc. They are all world-renowned gearbox manufacturers.
Aisin Seiki is a Fortune 500 company and a world-renowned auto parts supplier, involving hardware, electromechanical, mechanical equipment and other products. Toyota is a shareholder of the company, so there is no need for Toyota to use its own gearbox. someone else’s. ZF 8AT is world-famous and is the largest supplier of automotive parts in Europe. 8AT is also mostly used in high-end models. Although its later 9AT has been criticized, its technology is still leading the world. Jetco is controlled by Nissan and focuses on the CVT market. 70% of the world's CVT gearboxes are provided by Jetco or produced through joint ventures. After understanding Aisin AW and Jetco, you should be able to get some clues. Yes, since they are competitors, there must be technical blockades and patent barriers. If you want my products, you can either buy them at a high price, pay royalties, or follow my requirements completely. In short, you will completely lose your autonomy, build your own car and work around without profit, and finally let others make money. Let no one do it. Not willing. This is the situation of Toyota and Nissan. They support their own holding companies. Not only can they do whatever they want, but more importantly, they can control costs. Of course, Aisin also has CVT, and Jetco also has 4AT and 6AT, but their weaknesses are easily overlooked in the face of their strengths. It’s not that Aisin AW doesn’t sell products or deliberately excludes Honda and Nissan. Citroen, Mazda, Ford, Mitsubishi, Suzuki and many other brands use Aisin transmissions. Nissan doesn't use it because they have a friend like Jetco. With Jetco's expertise in CVT technology, it can basically handle more than 90 Nissan models. The reason why "Honda Giken" is not used is that Honda has always been unwilling to bow to others in the face of technology (to put it bluntly, it means controlling costs). "Technical geeks" are so tough, they can make enough food and clothing by themselves. After all, Honda can handle the family car level, so there is no need to bow to the two big guys. In short, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan basically use their own transmissions, and cost control is the most important thing. But don’t ignore that your own products are more compatible with your own products. Considering the powertrain balance adjustment and excellent vehicle performance, using someone else’s may not necessarily be easier than using your own.
This is a stupid question. Why not use it? Don’t buy Aisin to Honda and Nissan, because it is owned by Toyota and it is Toyota Company. If you were a Toyota executive, would you sell to your competitors? Look at how miserable Honda and Nissan are today. The Nissan Teana has a 2.0T engine, but it does not have an ideal gearbox and can only be equipped with a CVT. The Honda Crown Road 1.5T engine still uses a CVT. For such a heavy car, using a CVT is already a bad move. , the 2.0T can only use the 9AT gearbox, but this 9AT has long exposed serious problems in other models, but the 9AT only sells 9AT, and does not sell the mature and reliable 8AT to Honda, it is letting you Honda be a guinea pig, they It’s easy to collect data and make corrections in the future. Honda is a rogue and has no choice but to accept it. Therefore, it is impossible for Toyota to sell the Aisin AT transmission to Honda and Nissan, which are three thirds of the world, just like Huawei cannot sell Kirin chips to Xiaomi.