If you hired a lawyer when you were arrested, you will generally encounter 1 times when you first entered the detention center, 1 times after being arrested, 1 times after being prosecuted by the procuratorate, and 1 times the day before the trial, mostly about 4 times.
In the first two meetings, most lawyers only played the role of uploading and distributing, and then looked at what needs you had in your life and what you needed to explain to your family, and comforted you by the way, which didn't have much effect on the case. Because lawyers can't read papers at this time, it is estimated that this case is also very difficult. What can they do here? Talking to you and blowing water?
Lawyers are very busy, and a case usually lasts for half a year. If a lawyer only takes one case, he won't have to live. Therefore, when a lawyer handles your case, there are probably many cases to deal with, and you are not the only one.
After the "review and prosecution stage" is over, lawyers can read the papers and go to the procuratorate to print the files. Therefore, at this time, lawyers can seriously start to follow up the case and really understand what the case is. At this time, the lawyer may meet you once to see the lawyer's mood.
Of course, no matter how the "case file" is written, it mainly depends on how the procuratorate prosecutes. So after the prosecution, the lawyer will meet with you to understand some of your ideas and the direction of defense.
On the first day of trial, I usually see it once. Mainly to convey the direction of defense to you, and then teach you how to say and do in court, don't say what you shouldn't say, and deny what you shouldn't admit. To put it bluntly, it is "rehearsal" so as not to affect the next day's court session.
Therefore, how many times lawyers meet does not mean that lawyers can really play any role in the case.
In fact, if you have clear facts and conclusive evidence, hiring a lawyer of 6,543.8+million is no different from hiring a lawyer of 6,543.8+million. It is nothing more than some efforts to "plead guilty for the first time and ask the court for leniency". In fact, in the absence of a lawyer, the suspect himself said "I know I was wrong" and the effect can be similar.
Why do most suspects think that lawyers cheat money without effect?
The main reason is that most suspects expect too much from lawyers. They think that lawyers are omnipotent, powerful and can get themselves out of prison or get less sentences. However, the practice of lawyers is carried out within the framework of law, with clear facts and conclusive evidence. Even if the lawyer said something, it wouldn't change the verdict.
It's like, a mob killed five people and was in good spirits. No matter how good your lawyer is, he can't save his life. What's the point of paying for a lawyer? It's just a chat before you die.
As the saying goes, the greater the expectation, the greater the disappointment. If you spend money, you can't meet your ideal expectations, and naturally think that lawyers are liars.
Therefore, whether it is worthwhile to hire a lawyer depends mainly on one's financial ability.
It is absolutely right to ask a lawyer if something goes wrong. Although it may not be useful, at least in such a detention center, only lawyers can visit you and do something for you.
Of course, if your family environment is poor, and the facts are clear and the evidence is conclusive, we should not play that kind of "taste". Many times, it's actually very simple. At the end of the trial, all you have to say is "I know I'm wrong and ask the court for leniency", which is worth at least 90% of the lawyer's fees.
I have just gone through two lawsuits, both of which are our own business, and I have the honor to participate in the whole process.
Public security investigation and prosecution stage of procuratorate
If the crime is minor, you can apply for bail pending trial, but it has little to do with lawyers, you know.
Court stage,
In the first case, the lawyer, with a relatively deep qualification, comes alone and gets along well with the presiding judge and the prosecutor. On the premise of legal justice, judges and prosecutors will guide lawyers to defend in a direction beneficial to the parties. At this time, the lawyer actually knows the verdict, no matter how much it costs. What everyone hopes is that people at that time will be given a lighter sentence. The judge has given guidance, and it doesn't matter how many times the attorney and the client meet. It is enough to meet the first side to understand the situation and teach the second side how to say it.
In another case, the relationship between lawyers and presiding judges is average. At this time, lawyers are required to strictly examine the investigation files, find out the favorable places for the parties, communicate with the parties in time, understand the situation and determine the defense direction. But this has little to do with the number of meetings, or it may be that lawyers find out the problems that need to be verified at one time and only meet once. At this time, the lawyer will seriously say the verdict, because he doesn't know the result either.
Therefore, how much to hire a lawyer has nothing to do with the number of meetings, and it is enough to reach the expected judgment.
I want to talk about my views on this issue calmly with two examples. I hope you can improve your understanding of the work of lawyers and the value of lawyers for your reference.
0 1, example around: A relative was taken compulsory measures because of suspected duty crime, and was held in a detention center, waiting for investigation, prosecution and trial for more than a year.
After he was arrested, he entrusted a lawyer, and each issue cost 5,000 yuan, which cost a total of 1.5 million. This lawyer mainly meets, delivers information, delivers some clothes and so on. I met 10 times from my arrest to the trial. Most of them were picked up by my car, and a few times I was picked up by another woman.
Shortly after entrusting this lawyer, the woman who participated in the pick-up and drop-off went to another lawyer, known as a well-known lawyer, and spent 65,438+million in legal fees, of which 50,000 was paid by me. The lawyer met twice from accepting the entrustment to the court of first instance.
In other words, two attorneys are always entrusted. The lawyer who met her to run errands had a low fee, but she met many times. Later, in court, her professionalism was really poor, and even the crux of the case was not found.
Another barrister, although he only met twice before and after, accurately grasped the crux of the case and left the prosecutor speechless in court, which is extremely embarrassing and rare in public prosecution cases.
Although I am also a lawyer, I don't represent my relatives and friends. There is a simple reason. Every family has a difficult experience, and sometimes "sitting tight" can silence everyone.
After accepting the entrustment of the suspect's family, the cost is 30 thousand, from investigation, review and prosecution to first-instance judgment. During the period of accepting the entrustment, I did two important things: first, with the approval of the investigation organ, I met the victim for the client and obtained the understanding of the victim; Secondly, I met him about nine times, and each time I drove by myself, and I didn't ask the family members of the parties to reimburse me for the fare, fuel and so on.
In fact, the meeting has three main purposes: first, to pass legal and compliant information between family members and suspects, so as not to be so worried; The second is to understand the progress of the case, check the case with the criminal suspect, and prepare for the trial defense; The third is to do the ideological work of the suspect and let him plead guilty and admit punishment.
For a considerable number of criminal cases, the role of lawyer work in the case is limited. For example, selling/kloc-0.000 kg of heroin and solving such a case with stolen goods! If there are no additional circumstances that affect the sentencing, the probability of being sentenced to fixed-term imprisonment of 15 years or more, life imprisonment or death penalty is very high. No matter how skilled a lawyer is, it is difficult to win the case to a fixed-term imprisonment of less than 15 years.
There was once a lawyer who accepted the entrustment of a drug dealer's family and received a huge agency fee (at that time, he could buy three suites), promising to "save his life" and trying to change the result, but the final result was to revoke his license and be cleared out of the lawyer team.
Why is the effect limited?
Because the facts of the case are clear, the evidence is indeed sufficient, the investigation organ is professional, the public prosecution organ is also professional, and the judge is more professional. It is obviously useless to quibble! Don't be confused by the plot of Hong Kong movies.
But for some criminal cases, the value of lawyers is enormous. For example, if it is just an "ordinary" criminal case, the unjust, false and wrong case can be completely overturned. The well-known Du case is a typical case in which a lawyer successfully defended himself through hard work.
There are three main functions of lawyers in criminal cases:
The first thing is to meet with the family, let them know about the suspect, and let the suspect know about the family at the same time, so as to help the suspect feel at ease, which is beyond the competence of agents other than lawyers.
The second is to find a breakthrough in the case. For example, some cases are really unjust, false and wrong, and professionals are needed to help them solve their problems. This is the value of a lawyer. But it should also be noted that the premise is that the suspect is indeed wronged.
The third is to help defend, for example, on the basis of roughly determining the case, try to find a lighter or mitigated punishment, and help them get a lighter or mitigated punishment as much as possible. This is also the value of lawyers. After all, the public prosecution agency will not help the suspect get away with it.
038,000 lawyers, a * * * will only meet three or four times before the trial. Is it worth it? Conclusion: Nothing wrong.
Lawyers will do a lot of work, which is difficult and requires a strong knowledge reserve and experience accumulation, but this is invisible to clients and their families! No one can replace these jobs except lawyers. This is the value of criminal lawyers.
There used to be a story about a dentist who planted a tooth for a person and charged 5000 yuan, which was too expensive for the patient. The dentist told him that the material for dental implant is only worth 100 yuan, but the value of planting this tooth is 4900 yuan! He can sell only one tooth 100 yuan, but you have to have planting skills.
80 thousand hired a lawyer I don't know which city it is in. But as far as the local consumption level is concerned, it is neither high nor low, and there is nothing wrong with it, because most lawyers negotiate fees. If they can accept it, they can ask others.
The number of meetings depends on each lawyer's grasp of the case. Generally speaking, the number of meetings can be clearly agreed upon when entrusting. If the lawyer is a big name and thinks it is not necessary to see him too many times, the parties can ask another lawyer to meet him specially, or spend several hundred yuan to ask him to meet him specially.
Why do barristers spend their time defending rather than meeting suspects?
One of the reasons may be sensitivity.
When I went to the interview, I hardly spoke except for investigating the case. I listened to the suspect himself. If he wants to talk, let him talk all the time. If he doesn't want to talk, I'll end the interview.
It should be said that criminal interview is very sensitive, and it may be a disaster or a trap for inexperienced lawyers! The fewer meetings, the less risk.
Interview can't solve the problem of the suspect's minor crime, but it may make the lawyer fall in. It is better to make more efforts in defense, find flaws for suspects and strive for a lighter, mitigated and exempted punishment, but the parties and their families do not understand this weight.
Therefore, criminal lawyers have irreplaceable and important value in most criminal cases. It's just that some lawyers work hard on what the client can see, while others work hard on preparing the defense that the client can't see.
Finally got a chance to spit on my lawyer. This truth has been suppressed for almost five years.
Five years ago, I did spend more than 80 thousand yuan to hire a criminal defense lawyer, but the actual cost was far more than 80 thousand. Finally, the invoice was issued 1 10000 yuan, not including the expenses of inviting lawyers to dinner and socializing at ordinary times.
If you ask whether it is worthwhile to spend 80,000 yuan to hire a criminal defense lawyer to hold a court session after only three or four meetings? Then this question will be answered from many angles.
1. From the lawyer's point of view, he must think the price is low.
If you have the ability, he is eager to accept you 1.5 million, 200 thousand or 300 thousand. Why do lawyers talk so loudly? Is it really because they are valuable? Can they really provide you with professional legal services? Not necessarily!
Lawyers want such a high price because they all agree that it is very difficult to obtain a lawyer's license! Why do you think so?
I think many people know that in China, if you want to become a lawyer, you have to cross a threshold, that is, you have to pass the judicial examination prescribed by the state, that is, the current legal professional qualification examination. From the beginning of its establishment in 2002 to the present, the annual pass rate of this exam is less than 10%, and the pass rate after 10 is less than 5%! Therefore, it is called "the first test in the world"! I took the exam twice at 20 12 and 20 16, but I failed. I took the exam again in 2020 and fortunately passed the objective test.
The review of this exam is unparalleled in content and details. The purpose of setting each topic is not to see how many people can pass, but to see how many people can fail! From questions to options, there are pits everywhere. If you jump out of this pit, you will immediately fall into the next pit of the proposer. Therefore, it is completely impossible to pass if you don't learn well.
Moreover, those who can get a lawyer's license are real kung fu and will not be faked.
Therefore, in preparing for the exam, you should live in isolation for at least half a year, otherwise, it will be difficult for you to pass. Many people collapsed to get this certificate, and their families were ruined! No socializing, no work, no traveling, no housework, no children, no parents ... In short, even if you do this, there are still many people who fail.
Therefore, how can people who pass, receive certificates and accept cases severely compensate themselves if they have no money?
Because the lawyer fee you give is nothing compared with what he pays day and night!
If you are not short of money and just want to spend money to arrest people, then this 80 thousand is definitely worth it.
Rich people were put in jail for committing crimes. They will try their best to throw money. If this 80,000 yuan can achieve the expected effect, people will be fished out, or the punishment will be mitigated, and the money will be used to buy a prison term, not to mention 80,000 yuan and 300,000 yuan.
3. If you are an ordinary family and don't understand the pit of lawyer's fees, this money is definitely not worth it.
Ordinary people in China have low income, little knowledge, less higher education and even less legal knowledge. Once I met my family and was put in a detention center, I was already very anxious. I don't know what the future is, and I don't know the fate of my children, so I am eager to succeed. At this time, if a lawyer tells you that you can spend some money to handle the case well, reduce the punishment and have a certain personal relationship, you can basically be fooled, and then you can pay the lawyer's fee obediently.
The lawyer's fee is generally phased:
In the investigation stage, that is, the case is still in the public security organ, how much does it cost to meet at the detention center?
In the stage of examination and prosecution, how much does it cost to go to the procuratorate to check the transcripts and investigate the evidence?
At the litigation stage, how much does it cost to hear the case in court?
How much should I pay if I refuse to accept the judgment of the first instance, appeal and start the second instance?
The case is indeed misjudged, and trial supervision is a retrial procedure. How much does it cost?
You entrust a lawyer, and he follows your case all the time. Things are going well. If they don't, the sentence will be heavier. I'm sure you think this lawyer's fee is wasted. It's not worth a penny.
Many people say that China people don't go to court, which has a lot to do with the high fees charged by lawyers. Because they can't afford a lawyer and have no professional knowledge, they simply don't fight.
I don't know about you, but I think some lawyers charge too much! I understand the hard work of every lawyer to obtain a lawyer's license, but please take the road of law and distinguish the fees charged by the object! Many ordinary people who need help are already in trouble and their economic conditions are not high. If lawyers can be generous, do more good deeds and make some contributions to society, aren't they also accumulating virtue for their future? It is not easy to make money, but please make conscience money!
Not worth it. Most criminal lawyers are useless. Their defense words are basically not accepted by the court, unless you have not committed a crime, and lawyers provide you with rules within the scope of the law through defense. First, you didn't commit a crime. Second, you have conclusive evidence, and the rest is useless.
Nowadays, lawyers just want to give you a procedure. Ordinary people don't understand court procedures. They just want to give you a procedure. Some lawyers only read the case file the day before the trial.
A friend of mine hired a lawyer at the public security stage. The lawyer offered 10000, and then the price was 6000. The lawyer went to see him, but because the procuratorate did not approve the arrest, the lawyer went to bail pending trial. When he got home, the lawyer asked his friend for another 5,000 yuan. The lawyer said that it was all because he went to the procuratorate, and the procuratorate did not arrest him. Who knows that a month later, my friend was under surveillance by the public security organs, and my friend's family went to see this lawyer. The lawyer said that his last time was over, and he wanted to be an agent, but he still had to pay. Friends and family said it was still in the public security stage. Why not? He had to collect money, but the lawyer refused to go. A month later, his friend was arrested.
So, if something happens, don't rush to find a lawyer. Wait and see. Public security organs and inspection organs are both judicial organs, and they are all about evidence. If there is no evidence, they will not abuse their power. If the evidence is conclusive, it is no use looking for a lawyer.
But what I want to say is, if you want to find a lawyer, you can also find it at the court stage. A good lawyer can speak different legal concepts in court.
Finally, I tell you that lawyers charge by stages.
"Eighty thousand hired a criminal lawyer, and a * * * will only meet three or four times, and then go to court. Is it worth it? " I think it's worth it, only the parties themselves know best.
Generally, a person with behavioral ability, whether committing a crime or breaking the law, only makes mistakes (not including his understanding of the objective world and his position and attitude in the ideological field), and subconsciously has an axiomatic dividing line to distinguish right from wrong. For example, the rules and regulations, codes of conduct and specific requirements of all walks of life. Once you violate right and wrong, you know best. If leaders are held accountable, there are generally two attitudes. First, face it calmly and take the initiative to take responsibility. Get the understanding of colleagues and leaders. One is exaggeration, which is neither painful nor itchy, and muddles through.
Back to the point. As the saying goes, "Interlacing is like a mountain", I subjectively think that lawyers generally collect money according to the nature, severity, social impact, existing evidence and your requirements of your case. You hired a criminal lawyer, 80 thousand, which is a lot of money for ordinary people. You should have a weight in your heart, that is, what kind of punishment should be fair.
However, people have different values and attitudes towards the same case. One is that "I" violated the criminal law, with clear facts and sufficient evidence, and sincerely surrendered to the law. Then he charged 80,000 yuan, which was really too high, even 1 10,000 yuan, which was not worth it. One is that under the same circumstances, it is even less worthwhile for you to find a lawyer to defend you to reduce your criminal responsibility or reverse your case. Because most judges uphold justice, just sentencing and make judgments according to law.
If you are really wronged in the case, the lawyer clarified the grievance through investigation and evidence collection, polite defense and suggestions, and got a fair judgment from the court. Don't say 80,000,100,000 is also worth it! Of course, on the other hand, lawyers are not omnipotent. Things have changed, and some evidence to help you alleviate your grievances has long since disappeared, and there is nothing the lawyer can do. I paid 80 thousand yuan. Although it didn't help, I'm sure it was worth it, because your supervisor's wish is to clear your name. I believe that the truth will always come out, but in the foreseeable future.
Hello, according to your question and previous experience, let me talk about my opinion:
80,000 yuan is indeed a bit expensive for some cases, but for the whole process of general cases, 500-65438+10,000 yuan should be a relatively common price for professional criminal lawyers.
Let me answer your question first. I don't know what stage the case reached when you entrusted it. Generally, if all three stages are entrusted, this is the lowest number of meetings. If the case is entrusted at the trial stage, the meeting on March 3 and 4 has already explained the problem. The meeting purpose corresponding to each time period is different. Your case has been held for three or four times, so whether these three or four times will help the case well, whether it will have a good defense effect in court, the quality and effect of marking papers, how to communicate with the court, etc., the time and energy invested in this case, and finally whether the defense effect on the parties is worth considering.
If the value of attorney fees is measured by the number of interviews, then the starting point may be wrong at first. Maybe you want to hire a life lawyer and often go in to meet and chat. There are such lawyers, but professional criminal lawyers will not do such a thing. Their work is mainly on the case, facts and evidence, and only those who verify or understand the progress will meet. The rest of the time is spent on the more valuable aspects of this case, which can better protect the legitimate rights and interests of the parties.
Let's talk about it. Generally speaking, our way is to determine the workload needed to complete this case according to the fees and the size of the case, and determine the price through the workload. Therefore, as mentioned above, the workload of some cases may not cost 80,000 yuan, and some cases cost more than 80,000 yuan, but the value is not determined by the number of meetings. Our attitude is to truly show the value of lawyers in cases. Instead of ostensibly making the family look like we did our best and spent money.
For an inappropriate example, if the workload of your case is not 80 thousand, lawyers often go in to meet and chat with their families in order to make you feel worthwhile, which has no effect on the case. What you said is not worth the money, except that you wanted to find a life lawyer in the first place.
Generally speaking, every lawyer has his own way of working. Some work for the client, considering how to protect the maximum rights and interests of the client, and some work for the family, considering how to make the family feel the value of the lawyer's fee.
The above is my opinion, please forgive me for the improper place.
Let me start with a case I experienced some time ago. Last year, friend A was detained. After entering, the policeman who arrested him called another friend B and said that A had been arrested by us. Ask a lawyer or something to follow up.
My friend B was surprised to receive the phone call and ran to my side to ask what was going on and how A got in. But I'm numb, too Neither of us knows what's going on, nor have we been exposed to such things. Later, I found a local acquaintance who had dealt with this kind of thing and said to let the lawyer go in first.
So I found a lawyer and two, one local and one from the B family. Because I don't know why, I paid 5000 yuan in advance and entrusted a local lawyer to have a look. After the lawyer read it, he had an idea. It may be something early, involving criminal activities.
Then when it comes to price, there are two kinds of prices, one is the package price, which is the package price from beginning to end, and the other is to collect money in stages according to the development of the case. Lawyers don't want to be divided into sections, so I can't help it. Pack it.
The reason why we also look for lawyers in the B family is because we don't trust lawyers. The two lawyers should get more real information by visiting the prison separately.
After talking with lawyers, we learned a concept called gold for 37 days. Thirty days belongs to the police investigation and evidence collection cycle, and seven days is the procuratorate arrest cycle. In other words, if you can get people out within 37 days, everything will be fine. If the time limit is exceeded, it is a matter for the court. Entering the court belongs to the sentencing stage, and lawyers are only arguing about the specific sentencing. When you enter the court, the probability of not pleading guilty is too small, and it is basically a slap in the face.
Through the intermediary of a lawyer, I learned about A's participation. Later, I consulted my friend C. C said that if he handled this matter, he would have to wait 37 days, and the public security and procuratorate would give a conclusion according to the relevant laws and regulations. Because the case is lifelong, no one dares to be selfish.
At B's insistence, we didn't wait. Better to find it than not to find it. We also invited people to see more than a dozen people. Finally, our friend A was released on bail pending trial.
Judging from this matter, the lawyer's role is about to be a middleman. The main problem is that it doesn't matter whether you have friends from relevant units or not. Otherwise, it is illegal for Banel Dingding. It doesn't matter whether you want it or not. Not that kind of Banel Dingding. Let's find one.
As for the price and criminal cases, it's really not cheap, even if the lawyer has done nothing or seems to have done nothing.
As a person who has been detained for 1 year and 9 months, I tell you that the best time to find a lawyer for criminal cases is after criminal detention and before arrest (the time is 37 days, the longest period of public security investigation is 1 month, and the procuratorate decides whether to arrest or not for 7 days). During this period, lawyers can meet the criminal suspect in time according to the case, help the criminal suspect to confess the case, collect the conditions for the criminal suspect not to approve the arrest in time, and communicate with the procuratorate. Moreover, at this time, the criminal suspects in the detention center are the most tormented period, and social status _ loneliness _ helplessness _ living environment _ worry is the strongest time point. The minimum lawyer's fee for general criminal cases is about 30,000 yuan, one link 1 10,000 yuan. Is it worth it? In fact, I personally think it is not worth it, because as long as a criminal case is caught, it will be sentenced. As for the lawyer's defense, it is nothing more than a first-time offender, an occasional offender, a truthful confession, a good attitude towards confession and repentance. These are relatively light situations. It turns out that cases sentenced to more than three years will not be less than three years, unless there is meritorious service or surrender. These are mitigating circumstances. According to the size of meritorious service, meritorious service and major meritorious service can be reduced by one level and will not be punished. As for these defense points, in fact, you can defend yourself in court after staying in the detention center for a long time. It's not the same now. Lawyers are all connected, and confessions of conviction and sentencing can be operated. No one dares to reach out and cannot generalize. As long as the rape is convicted, it will start three years later, and the level is 3- 10 years. There are also indefinite and suspended death sentences and death sentences. There is no guarantee of boldness. Finally, I'll give you a three-year starting price, that's right. This will cost a lot of money. Generally, the only use of a lawyer with a very clear case is to meet several times and tell you what the family outside is like and what has changed. When the case comes to that, I will write words of comfort (this is actually the only psychological sustenance and comfort for the suspect who is locked up in the detention center). How many years will he be sentenced if you ask him? Lawyers will be very conservative and give you an interval.